| Author | Message | ||
     Mike Bergmann Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
I find that the 12:1 fine tune is more than enough. I have sometimes taken one part off the fine tune so that it works at 8:1, and htis is not too bad. I do find that I like the 12:1 working to windward in heavy air. I would not go with any more purchase than that. | ||
| Brayden Woods New member Username: Brayden Post Number: 18 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
I am thinking of changing my mainsheet system to the Harken Magic Two Speed system. either the 6/3:1 or the 8/4:1. My current system is 6:1 with a + 4:1 fine trim (I know this sounds extreme – and it is...) in most conditions we found that the 6:1 was enought to handle just about all conditions and the (mental 24:1) fine tune was extreme overkill. The two things that I hate about the current system is the time and effort it takes to get the main sail IN or OUT while rounding marks. If we need more muscle on windy days we can 3-Arm the mainsheet in, and work the traveler more. I'm curious if anyone has either of these systems and if you have any insights. I used to have a 2/4:1 on an older boat of mine and loved it. http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?409Z56LC4Z4Q6 | ||
| Mike Bergmann Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Just one extra note - I was unable to upload photos of my mainsheet installation - that is how my last note got posted twice. If anyone wants photos, e-mail me and I will send them. | ||
| Mike Bergmann Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
I just updated my mainsheet to a gross/fine system and it works great in light and heavy air. I have a 4:1 gross trim and a 3:1 fine trim for a total of 12:1. The entire system is mounted on the original traveler car. Nobody makes a spring big enough to hold this up so I wrapped some canvas-backed material around the shackles and held it in place with two hose clamps. This keeps the blocks from tipping over and jamming. This system requires a Lewmar 80 series fiddle block with ratchet and cam cleat arms for the gross trim. There is a Lewmar 60 series fiddle block with ratchet (optional) and cam cleat arms for the fine trim, and this is mounted on the cam cleat arms of the gross trim block (the hole is already there). A Lewmar 60 series single block with becket is attached to the end of the gross trim coming down from the boom. The system can use the original double block on the boom or you can get a new one. Do not use a fiddle block on the boom for this system. The system needs about 75 feet of 3/8" line for the gross trim and 15 to 20 feet of 5/16" line for the fine trim. About 6 years ago I added Harken’s double traveler blocks for 4:1 traveler control - that is much better than the original 3:1. | ||
| Mike Bergmann Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
I just updated my mainsheet to a gross/fine system and it works great in light and heavy air. I have a 4:1 gross trim and a 3:1 fine trim for a total of 12:1. The entire system is mounted on the original traveler car. Nobody makes a spring big enough to hold this up so I wrapped some canvas-backed material around the shackles and held it in place with two hose clamps. This keeps the blocks from tipping over and jamming. This system requires a Lewmar 80 series fiddle block with ratchet and cam cleat arms for the gross trim. There is a Lewmar 60 series fiddle block with ratchet (optional) and cam cleat arms for the fine trim, and this is mounted on the cam cleat arms of the gross trim block (the hole is already there). A Lewmar 60 series single block with becket is attached to the end of the gross trim coming down from the boom. The system can use the original double block on the boom or you can get a new one. Do not use a fiddle block on the boom for this system. The system needs about 75 feet of 3/8" line for the gross trim and 15 to 20 feet of 5/16" line for the fine trim. About 6 years ago I added Harken’s double traveler blocks for 4:1 traveler control - that is much better than the original 3:1. | ||
| Scott Corder New member Username: Pastcommodore Post Number: 34 Registered: 02-2001 Rating: N/A |
Jeff, Thanks for posting something I've meant to post for a long time: namely the srong argument for raising the profile of the traveller track. Anyone using the original traveller (or aftermarket for that matter) has to have experienced the problem of lines jamming under the traveller car. I used about 1/2 to 5/8 of material to simply elevate the track enough to prevent jammed lines. A great improvement with little fuss and no modification of the existing installation holes. Your mainsheet modifications seem ok at first blush, but I simply wanted to mention that a gross/fine upgrade of the existing sheet has worked very nicely for us. Last thought re traveller cars: I've sailed two other 9.1 meters with windward sheeting cars where the traveller line exited from the car (instead of the cockpit coaming). This was a HUGE pain in the neck as the angle of release required my hands to be down in the cockpit versus up where I typically was positioned. Our experience is that a well maintained and lubricated standard-issue traveller car is more than sufficient for racing or cruising. | ||
| Jeff Roy New member Username: Jeffr Post Number: 60 Registered: 03-2001 Rating: N/A |
I replaced my mainsheet system this spring and rebuilt my traveler. I am really happy with the way it is working so I wanted to share my design with the class. My goals for the project were to make the system easy to use for both day sailing shorthanded and racing with crew. I really dislike mainsheets that cleated on the traveller car because as the car moves the sheeting angle changes making it either difficult to cleat or release depending on the position of the car. Also, when the sheet is on hard, pulling on it more just makes the car move unless there is a foot jammed up against it. I also wanted to increase the purchase to 6:1 ( I think 5:1 was standard) for normal use and 12:1 for racing. At the same time I wanted to improve the performance of my traveller. The traveller needed to be taken off the boat and taken apart. The car was all gummed up with dirt as were the balls. Everything was thoroughly cleaned and put back together. I made a spacer out of Starboard to go underneath the traveller because I found it often ran over lines and got jammed on them. With the spacer there is enough room to run over lines cleanly. I replaced the Schaefer stand up blocks and cam cleats with new Harken ones. My traveller had a 4:1 but it seemed jury riggged, not sure if it was standard. I kept the advantage at 4:1 so I installed a pair of padeyes next to the new double stand up blocks. I purchased a large swivel base bracket from Layline to mount a Harken swivel base with Fredricksen ratchet block on. This assembly was through bolted, sandwitched between the support brackets and the new spacer under the traveller. A few notes on this. I originally ordered the standard bracket form Layline but it was to short and created interference with the traveller car. I bought a small swivel base and now wish I had bought the longer one because the ratchet block hits the cam cleat fairlead. This has worked out great. I can adjust the main and cleat it without looking from any position, regardless of the position of the traveller or the wind strength. This picture shows the primary mainsheet ratchet and swivel.  I used Harken carbos everywhere except on the swivel. I put a 57 mm double on the car, a 57 mm double on the boom padeye and a 57 mm ti-lite on the boom, just forward of the double for the final turn to the fine tune system (more on that later). This picture shows the overall set up.  For the fine tune I put a 40mm single on the end of the mainsheet with a stopper ball to prevent it from getting jammed into the 57 mm ti-lite. I led this down to a pair of 40 mm singles on a big padeye on the cockpit sole. I put a good sized backing plate under this to spread the load. From there it goes to standups on the footwell wall and up to cam cleats at the top of the footwell. This doubles the purchase to 12:1 and allows the main trimmer to trim from either rail. I tied the ends of the fine tune off on the toe rail so they cannot run out and are always easy to find when sitting outboard  This picture shows the entire system. Notice the spacer under the traveller and the way the fine tune is routed. The fine tune does not interfere with the engine controls. The only drawback to this setup is that because 2 of the 6 legs of the mainsheet purchase are fixed on the centerline it reduces the effectiveness of the traveller by 1/3. This has not been a problem, it just takes a little getting used to. We have used vang sheeting when we found we needed to play the traveller aggresively. | ||
| Deborah Davenport (Ddavenport) Rating: N/A |
Jeff, We bought that mainsheet rig in 1986, so needless to say it is not still available. The rig is a single, continuous line - hence my comments about it developing kinks in the course of the season. In the APS catalog,the closest to what we used is the 3:1/6:1. However, that has an outer limit of 240 sf, which is almost exactly the 9.1's rated mainsail area. The description of using the magic systems baffled me, but I'm sure your mainsheet trimmer could learn. I retired Glory Days from racing when I came to Long Island Sound, and have crewed on a number of other boats 35' to 45', almost always ending up as main trimmer. Bottom line is that I've never found an ideal arrangement that enabled good release and didn't somehow get in the way. The traveller attachment point is as good as any in my experience. To release when the traveller is all the way down, main trimmer extends leg/foot to lower the sheet away from the cleat. Imperfect, but it works. We used - still use - a plastic milk crate clipped to the traveller supports, aft of the traveller, as a mainsheet bag. We upgraded to the large size used by one local dairy, which fits within 2" of the total width of the cockpit sole. It also is the collection point for all hardware -- winch handles, snatch blocks, spinnaker sheet leads, barber hauler, etc. -- when everything is unrigged (fondly known as the heavy metal box). It also is a place to contain everyone's drink cans and water bottles when conditions change suddenly. And it does a great job keeping the mainsheet clear of encumbering feet. | ||
| jeffr Rating: N/A |
Deborah, Is your mainsheet the Harken Magic type or does it have separste tails for the fine and gross trims. If they are separate, did you make it double ended and if so how is it rigged. I want to replace my mainsheet system and am considering the magic systems but I do not like having the mainsheet cleated on the traveller because when it is dropped to leward it is hard to uncleat. I am also considering adding a fine tune cascade that would be double ended, cleated on the footwell sides in front of the traveller. My only concern about that method is it will add to the speghetti mess in the cockpit. | ||
| Deborah Davenport (Ddavenport) Rating: N/A |
We replaced the original mainsheet rig in its entirety with a two-speed (3:1 plus 12:1) the second year that Glory Days raced. It was a great improvement. Two minor issues: 1. The continuous sheet develops interesting (annoying) kinks over time. Solution is to remove one end from its attachment pin, unrig the sheet from that set of blocks, turn the kinks out, re-rig, re-pin. 2. You have to train (and regularly re-train) everyone who trims the main on how to think with both hands. Both are worth putting up with for the incremental control of the main. We saved the original mainsheet rig for use (never, we hope) as the lifting rig for the Lifesling. We added a old-style nylon boom vang strap with D-rings to attach to hang the rig from the boom. | ||
| Lance Rating: N/A |
I just broke the top (boom attatched) double Harken block. So its time to replace the whole system. I'm strongly considering upgrading to 6:1 purchase with the Lewmar 60mm (2 3/8") series triple racing blocks (probably the high load versions). I sail in a lot of wind so strength is important. I've had some trouble uncleating the mainsheet when there's a big load on it. I'm not sure whether to have an 80mm (3") fiddle or block on the bottom,etc. Also, one nagging problem is all that line that needs to be brought in fast at the leeward mark. Does anybody use a gross and fine tune system?? Comments and suggestions?? | ||
| Ron Spainhour (Paganbaby) Rating: N/A |
I use a gross and fine tune system. I have a snap shackle on a block that is fastened to the eye at the end of the mainsheet. That block is double ended with two blocks (one for each side)fastened on the cockpit sole. From there the line runs to a Harken cam cleat right at the edge of the seat just in front of the mainsheet traveler. It doubles the purchase of the 5:1 mainsheet. Works fine. Easy to release, etc. |
