| Author | Message | ||
     Gary McRae New member Username: Gary_mcrae Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2006 Rating: N/A |
HI John, I have the Lewmar D2 clutches that I put on last year shortly after I got the boat. They are for 8-10 mm line so I am hoping 5/16" will hold OK. I thought the 3/8" might be too big for the sheaves and it cost about $77 more per halyard. Defender seems to have very good pricing on Warpspeed. I used a random orbital sander with 60 grit to take off almost all of the paint, that took about maybe 12-14 hours of sanding. Then I borrowed a small sand blaster to get the small areas that the sander could not do. You can also hand sand there. I went over it again with 120 grit quickly just before doing the primer. I used a foam roller with my son following with a foam brush. It was a pain so when I put primer on my boom this weekend in the basement I will use a bristle brush. The primer gets sanded down smooth any way. I am thinking I am going to apply the top coat with a brush as well but I will try the boom first. I can get a friend to spray if necessary. I am with you racing (which as been going very well  and some day sailing so it does not have to be perfect and any thing will look better that it did. Quote overheard from a well sailed Olson 30 with shiny new sails "why are those guys kicking our ass" | ||
| John Stefancik New member Username: Jstef Post Number: 30 Registered: 01-2001 Rating: N/A |
Gary, Yes, all I meant was that the Sta Set line slips in the clutches a little and also stretches a tiny bit. When I replace those halyards, I will try for lower stretch line. My sheeves are the originals made for the rope to wire halyards and seem to work fine. I contemplated replacing them, too, but feel like they work rather perfectly. There is only so much time I can devote to work on the boat, and I'm glad I didn't make that a priority. Are you blasting your mast before you repaint? I was thinking that I would simply sand then paint. This is what was done when I bought the boat in 1996 and the paint job was OK for the last ten years (not perfect). Since we race the boat most of the time, I don't need it to look bristol, just function well. John Stefancik Hurricane Kelley Annapolis, MD | ||
| Gary McRae New member Username: Gary_mcrae Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2006 Rating: N/A |
Hi John, first my sheaves do not necessarily need to be replaced they are actually pretty smooth however they are vee'd for wire and apparently you can get new Delran sheaves for rope for about $12 each so it is pretty cheap. I though the line would fit in better if they were rounded. My bushings are worn so that they wobble a bit, not sure if that makes it any harder to hoist or not. What do you mean your spin halyards slip too much for the jib? It stretches or it slips in your clutches? Thanks Gary | ||
| John Stefancik New member Username: Jstef Post Number: 29 Registered: 01-2001 Rating: N/A |
Gary, We replaced the old halyards in 2005 with stripped 3/8 warpspeed on the jib halyard, and 3/8 Stay Set-X (not stripped) on the spin halyards. Wichard shackles on all three. We have had one instance of a spin shackle opening up (in very light wind if you can believe it). The set up works well, except when we use the spin halyards to hoist the genoa on a sail change and it slips too much. Not sure what MikeB removed, but he might have removed all that stainless up there (see Jeff Roy's photo in this thread). I have my mast on the ground right now, and plan on repainting it also. If I come across anything I will post it for the group. Also, how do you know your sheeves need replacement? John Stefancik Hurricane Kelley Annapolis, MD | ||
| Gary McRae New member Username: Gary_mcrae Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2006 Rating: N/A |
Hi all, I have two questions. I have my mast stripped and am in the process of repainting it. I will be purchasing 4 new all rope halyards with the spare jib halyard normally being used for the pole topping lift. I am planning on going to 5/16" Warpspeed for all of them. I will be buying new sheaves from Offshore Spars if they are still available. I will be splicing in new Wichard shackles. Does anyone have any better suggestions? Second question: a comment from Mike B "I decided that the halyard guide was only needed for protecting the aluminum mast from being cut up by wire halyards. With all-rope halyards, I removed it in 1997, and have had no problems since. With the halyard changes and the guide removed, I got about 5 or 6 pounds out of the masthead." What exactly did he remove? Less weight aloft sounds like a good idea and there is a lot of SS up there? Is this allowed, not that I have a lot of other 9.1 to race against  | ||
| Mike Bergmann Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Just to add to the discussion: a previous owner added an older style Selden furlex on my short rig 9.1 "Shooting Star". This has the split drum and the included wire forestay mentioned by others. I use this as a racing foil and do well (we won our association champoinship in 2002 racing in a PHRF fleet over a J30 and a J105!) I use the furler for cruising and long deliveries. I avoid a halyard retainer by making sure the upper swivel goes all the way to the top of the extrusion. If the sail is cut too short, add a short pennant at the head. Check the length by running the sail up the extrusion with no pennant, and two-blocking the upper swivel. Measure from the tack ring down to the lower swivel shackle, and use that length for the pennant (maybe reduce by 1/2") I replaced all my halyards with interlocking core spliced halyards in 1997. Each halyard consists of 50 ft. of 3/8" dacron as a tail and 50 ft. of 3/16" (yes, it works!) of spectra or technora as the working part. The interlocking splice is about 5 ft. long and is cut so it ends at the clutches with the halyard up. If you don't want to try this splice yourself you can get it done at Layline or APS. I do mine in about 40 minutes each. I decided that the halyard guide was only needed for protecting the aluminum mast from being cut up by wire halyards. With all-rope halyards, I removed it in 1997, and have had no problems since. With the halyard changes and the guide removed, I got about 5 or 6 poounds out of the masthead, and that almost makes up for the weight of the Selden extrusion. The high-tech parts of the halyards showed a lot of UV damage after 5 years. I was able to replace the high-tech parts only and re-splice them into the original tails. Total replacement cost is about $30 per halyard. An outside vendor won't do this for you. I spray Sailcote on the luffs of all headsails (main too), and the sails literally fall to the deck when we release a halyard. The slippery luff also means that a change in halyard tension shows up immediately. | ||
| William Shirley Rating: N/A |
Jeff, Thanks for the good info. I can tell you that I got a whole heck of a lot of good info from your trials and tribulations that were posted here and really helped me buy a quality boat. I am currently getting the mast step rebuilt and deck core rebuilt in Annapolis from a guy with a really good rep. Not cheap, but I got the boat at a very favorable price. And...he has done 5 of them already.....anyway, I will post my results on whatever roller furler I buy. | ||
| Jeff Roy (Jeffr) Rating: N/A |
I decided to go with the Seldon because I got a great deal on it and it comes as a complete kit. I did not want to have to order a laundry list of extras. It comes with a 5/16" wire replacement headstay. I was told that if I wanted to reuse my rod headstay I either had to find a rigger with a portable headforming press to come to the boat or bring the boat to a rigger with one to have the stay reheaded. Instead I decided to roll up the rod headstay with it's tuffluff and put it away in case I ever wanted to use it again. I think the Seldon and the Harken were the only two choices that came with a split drum and a dual slot foil shaped extrusion. The Seldon is a little heavier than the Harken. I think all of the units sold today are excelent products and work well. It really comes down to a few minor features and price. I am pretty sure you will have to shorten the hoist a little on all your sails even if you remove the drum for racing because the 9.1 requires a halyard deflector to prevent halyard wrap with a roller furler. I guess it depends on how the sails were cut originally. | ||
| William Shirley Rating: N/A |
Anyone have a recommendation for the best/easiest system to install on a 9.1 for a rollerfurler? I want a removable drum for racing so i don't have to recut the great sails I got for the boat. I plan on getting an older Headsail recut for the furler or just have a new one made. Thanks William Shirley | ||
| Paul Alexy (Palexy) Rating: N/A |
Scott I measured the I three ways with three halyards and am short 4or 5 inches.My luff pin to pin is also short due to furler block added.The shrouds are normal with only half the threads used with correct tension soo the mast step cant be lower by much. the mast is straight sooo why is the I short. This is not the short rig.. PS the rack is out the mast is straight and short.... | ||
| Jerry Salaja (Jerry) Rating: N/A |
Jeff, I'm not sure of how far down the retainer is, until I get back to FL to look at the boat (early May) If you have someone install the system they should be able to tell you. Otherwise I can look when I get down there. It is pretty close to the top because it has to be above the upper swivel and there isn't much room up there. | ||
| Jeff Roy (Jeffr) Rating: N/A |
Jerry, Where did you mount the halyard retainer? Did you have to mount it below the halyard guide? Here is a photo of the top of my mast.  | ||
| Jerry Salaja (Jerry) Rating: N/A |
Scott, I have a Harken Furler on my boat and it has to work with the center halyard. It also required a halyard retainer to prevent wraps at the top. The angle is so small that we had trouble with wrapping and had to use the retainer. Jerry Salaja | ||
| Jeff Roy (Jeffr) Rating: N/A |
You bet I am a question asking machine! It is the best way to get answers! If everyone is willing to put up with me I have just begun to ask questions. I learn fast and hope that soon I will be able to answer a bunch of other peoples questions. I spoke to the previous owner and he used the center halyard for the spinnaker, he believed it to be the correct way to do things. He said he used wire for the spinnaker halyard because he had chafe problems with it. I am sure a large part of that was because of the interfernece with the headstay exiting that center sheave. I do not think 1/4" T 900 would have been my choice, but it is money already spent and it is a good line. I am sure it is more than strong enough. I am going to have an extra cover sewn on the tails so clutches and winches can grab it better. The owners manual confirmed that the halyard guard has to be removed to get at the toggle. The roller furler installment includes a new headstay and the extrusion lenghts have to be right. I decided on a Seldon Furlex system with an integral adjustment screw. There is only about 1 1/2" of adjustment on the furler, less than a typical turnbuckle. I have been getting a lot of heat from racing friends for putting a roller furler on the boat in the first place. Racing is going to be secondary to daysailing and racing with my wife and young daughter. It is unsettling to the performance sailor in me knowing how much weight aloft I am adding. | ||
| Scott Corder (Pastcommodore) Rating: N/A |
Jeff: You are a question-asking machine! I'll try to throw my .02 in here on some of this... First, I have NO experience with furling on the 9.1, but KATO of Milwaukee does. He might be able to help. As for the center halyard being intended for the jib: I think consensus and logic clearly dictate that. I don't know anyone who does other wise. As for the wire/rope issue on your boat: it may be that the previous owner simply mislabelled the jib halyard, as it could be argued that wire makes sense for the jib (where hoist is critical to trim). Obviously stretch is a major concern for the jib more so than the spinnakers. Size of wire? Don't have any on my boat any more so can't speak to that, although it does seem silly to spend all that money on T900 when you still have wire. The T900 on your boat does seem quite small. It strikes me that while eliminating weight aloft is a very good idea, there may be a point of diminishing return on the investment in splicing and varied materials. It is very convenient to know that you can always "flop" halyards of consistent construction to double their life expectancy. Five years ago, I spent 1500 bucks simply downsizing to all 3/8. I expect them to last a few more years while I spend my money on new #1's and rum for a well-oiled crew. I can't speak to the toggle attachment as my mast is in another town. I'll take a look next time I'm there. Headstay measurements are on the info data pages as Russ pointed out. Am I correct in assuming that the furler mechanism itself could be dimensioned to match the headsail dimensions, while the actual overall headstay length could still be adjusted through the selection of attachment hardware at the top? This might offer you some time to "figure out" what works best? As for mast rake, I can speak from experience that you don't want the mast raked aft (it's very slow in light air... although frightenly fast when it blows over 30!). Mast should basically exit the deck vertical before tensioning the shrouds. Keep in mind that the mast plate in the bilge does not have to move very far to swing the top a long distance. We moved mine in 1/64 increments until we liked where it was. I did have the good fortune of comparing my rake to 8 other 9.1's on Lake MI. I have had to add an extra toggle connector on the backstays to compensate for the previous owner's misguided mast rake efforts. We carry a fair amount of headstay sag for primarily light air conditions and then use the backstay as it blows harder. My headsails are cut in such a way that they like alot of halyard adjustment (in addition to the sheet) as conditions change, so we're pretty "fluid" with our trim all the way around. Obviously furling may affect sag and your ability to tighten the headstay significantly. | ||
| Jeff Roy (Jeffr) Rating: N/A |
Russ, Thanks for the heads up. Those pages were helpful. I would still like to hear from folks on a few of these questions. Am I correct in my assumption the center halyard is intended as the primary genoa halyard? (I am 99% sure but would like to confirm it.) I would also be interested in gathering as many head stay lengths as possible to get a feel for what is common and how variable this measurement is. | ||
| Russ Fender (Commodore) Rating: N/A |
Jeff some of your answers can be answered by going to the welcome page and checking out the factory catalogs. Look under owners manuals for rigging information, rig tuning info and racing options. That should help you with some of the location information and what the factory did. | ||
| Jeff Roy (Jeffr) Rating: N/A |
I am starting to get the 9.1 I just bought ready. My first project is to install a Seldon Furlex furler. I was looking over the masthead and the halyard arrangement and I have a few questions. The previous owner replaced all 4 halyards last year with 1/4" T900. I talked with a rigger and he said the line was more than adequate for the loads, but I am going to have extra covers sewn on the tails so that the self tailing winches and clutches can hold them. (That will probably be another series of questions soon to come) Anyway, on the halyard he labled Spinnaker he had what appears to me to be 1/8" 7X19 wire spliced onto the working end. This is coming out of the middle sheave at the mast head. Several things seem wrong about this set up. First it seems like a big waste of money to use T 900 as nothing more than a tail for a wire halyard ( there is about a mast lengths of wire on the halyard). It seems to me the center sheave is best used as the primary genoa halyard because it is the only one below the headstay attachment. I think this would create a large amount of chafe if it were used for a spinnaker halyard. Here are some specific questions. What arrangement are other peoples halyards in at the mast head? What was the factory set up? Does, this wire size seem adequate? (1/8" 7X19 has a breaking strenght of 1,760#s, 6 mm T 900 has a breaking strenght of 4400#'s) I was also examining the toggle attachement for the headstay. Does one have to take the halyard guide at the masthead apart to remove the clevis pin? It looks like it may be difficult. I hope not because the screw on the front of the guide show signs that someone unsuccessfully tried to remove it and damaged the screw head. I have had to remove seized SS screws in Aluminum masts before, it is no picnic! I also need an accurate headstay length measurement to install the roller furling unit. The instructions assume you have already determenined the best headstay lenght (i.e. proper rake) and marked the turnbuckles so you can measure it after you have the headstay off. I have no experience sailing the boat and I do not know if the previous owner had it set up right. The rig is down now so I have to make some sort of a guess as to where he had the head stay turnbuckle set. I think I can guess based on the threads, but it is not definite. Is there any rig tuning information available that would give me a good measurement for the head stay? Do any of you know what your pin-to-pin headstay length is? Thanks in advance | ||
| William Shirley New member Username: William_shirley Post Number: 15 Registered: 04-2002 Rating: N/A |
Ladies and Gentlemen, I installed a Harken furler last year. I had a wire to rope halyard that was completely destroyed by halyard wrap tonight. My crew took the boat out and forgot my admonition to make sure they had proper Headstay tension. If the headsail is not properly tensioned then the furler no workee. I had gone thru much swearing and gnashing of teeth to experiment with different things to make it work without a halyard restrainer mostly because I was afraid I would have to have all the sails recut too allow a shorter luff length if it is required to use a halyard restrainer (I had already paid to have them recut to accomodate the shorter length required by the furler). My question: Those out there with a Harken roller furler...do you use a halyard restrainer? If so, how much does it help and how low do you have to place it? My other thought is using 3/8 line might be less prone to wrap due to the thicker diameter. Thanks. Shep Shirley Lightning Rod |
